Pathfinder: Kingmaker

Couldn't see a thread for this one, outside of a brief mention in the tabletop forum.

So, an isometric version of Pathfinder, set in the Kingmaker campaign in the Stolen lands! Saw it due to a new trailer on RPS:

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/07/20/pathfinder-kingmaker-date-trailer/

In summary:

- Isometric - in the vein of Baldur's gate - 14 character classes - 10 companions - ROMANCE - you can clear areas and establish a kingdom - so those bandit camps... you can REMOVE THEM. - 1000 spells. - Alignment system that carries through to the "strategy layer" - OH yeah, strategy layer - you run a kingdom. Whether this is like "the keep" in POE or more developed - well seems more developed.

It seems like they took the Inquisition element from DA and realised it was... tonk. And then thrown in the Fable alignment / ruler bit and made it better because THAT was tonk too.

Trailer for those who can't access RPS:

https://youtu.be/N9iD9Y5rBIA

Edited by JerekLaz on Jul 21st 2018 at 3:08:01 AM

So I've probably said this in somewhere pathfinder related forum, but I'm still kinda surprised they adapted Adventure Path for first Pathfinder CRPG instead of just doing completely original story Also would have thought if they adapted Adventure Path they would have went with Rise of the Runelords first. I do get logic of going with the most sandbox not story heavy ap of them all, but still

Do you think it was so they COULD just have a sandbox? A linear story would possibly have been too dense or lore reliant? But a sandbox presents its own complex challenges.

They do have Chris Avellone on board... but that just makes me think the end game is your Kingdom collapsing into anarchy and half your companions betraying you for complex motivational reasons...

I think idea was that they wanted to pick ap with the most player freedom Kingmaker is super story light(I know because I'm playing in the campaign) like it does have overarching story(I think one of the trailers hint on it), but its really hard to notice unless you know to look out for it, otherwise its basically "You build the kingdom and huh there is new problem every book that you should probably look into also lot of sidequests"

I can say that unless Avellone radically changes the established plot, it probably won't end up like that because Paizo doesn't like to be dick to players :p

Edited by SpookyMask on Jul 21st 2018 at 1:33:53 PM

I think Avellone is only an additional writer for this one, like last time.

Either way, I'm wondering if people here would be more interested in this if it was completely original AP(since kinda hard to speculate about something that if you really wanted to, you could spoil it in advance) or if it was D&D brand instead of Pathfinder ._. Or is it just case of not much to discuss before release

I think there's enough... But maybe it's not been on the radar - haven't seen any of the major sites really talk about It, compared to pillars of eternity for example.

One thing I like is the potential for party members to really disagree with you. Haven't seen that really in depth since planescape with dakkon at al who could properly turn on you.

The half orc in particular looks a bit... extreme.

Oh yeah, this was released yesterday huh. Kinda surprised nobody else commented on it.

Anyway, I've tried it out, seems very solid CRPG to me based on first impression.

RPS noted the release but there seems to have been very little fanfare or excitement. I'm gonna pick it up - love the idea of building out a town whilst also adventuring. Plus combat looks rather fun!

Negative reviews on Steam seem to indicate that the combat is horrifically imbalanced against the players.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

Specifically that the game likes to throw enemies with huge damage reductions at the player, sometimes at random (A few reviews mention a random encounter with werewolves), that the player might not have any ways to defeat unless the happened to have specced a very specific way.

An early quest sends player to fight spider swarms, who are immune to weapon damage. Which sucks if you picked a weapon using class.

EDIT: The Devs just posted in the steam forum that they will patch the difficulty. The aforementioned spider swarm will have the npc give you alchemical fire flasks to deal with the spiders.

Edited by Ghilz on Sep 26th 2018 at 1:26:19 PM

How was this not revised or called out by testers?

Apparently it was pointed out during the beta.

There's also a bear treant boss players are meant to fight at level 2 who is apparently resistant to most form of weapons save bludgeoning and fire, and who can one shot the entire party from a screen away. He's coming up ALOT in reviews and was mentioned by the Dev as needing toning in a hot fix.

Another complaint is that the custom npc cost a fortune in gold, so you can't hire them out of the gate, further making things difficult for players who are stuck with the pre-made npcs.

EDIT: Game's score has gone down to "Mixed" on steam now. I guess feedback is more pressing when it's tanking your game's reviews.

Edited by Ghilz on Sep 26th 2018 at 3:14:58 PM

So basically it's a beta an Early Access title that was "mistakenly" put up on Steam without being labeled as such?

Edited by Reflextion on Sep 26th 2018 at 4:07:50 AM

A few more positive ones, seem to be okay with the difficulty saying it's like playing with a Killer Game Master. So it might be intentional to a certain degree.

Edited by TerminusEst on Sep 26th 2018 at 1:19:11 AM

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

Considering the game dev post goes at long lenght about how they wanted people to have fine control over the difficulty, and many people specifically mention this being balls hard on normal, I don't think it was what they were going for for all difficulties

Not to mention most people consider a Killer Game Master an example of how to not be one.

Sure, but Dark Souls has proven that some people like that. At least it sounds like this isn't Fake Difficulty—no ridiculous damage sponges. If you have the right equipment/skills, you'll be fine. You need a balanced party, just like a good tabletop session. The problem seems to be that it's just too difficult to find said right equipment/skills.

Huh? Don't honestly get what you meant. Then again I'm used to swarms being fricking horrible in pen & paper version so when I realized the cave had them, I returned back at level 3 I also waited until level 4(the heck doing it on level 2? You can't defeat even Stag Lord in this version at level 3 if you ask me) It does way too much damage for level 2) before doing the treant, there are lot of sidestuff to do.

I'm up to kingdom building party by now and game never forced encounter with werecreatures. There was one side area I found with them, but when I found them I was like "Yeah I'm just gonna return later". I somehow get feeling that people used to Pathfinder's rules have easier time with this because they don't expect they can do everything they find instantly when they find them.

Also, a thing I don't know if most reviews noted, the difficulty is 100% customizable. Its not about picking difficulty settings, its about sliding the sliders. I'm myself playing with all enemies being normal. I do think default settings for difficulties might be bit off though since none of them(even the one that says enemies are 100% normal and damage they take is 100% normal has them little weaker)

But yeah, for record, I've played for 18 hours and I never really got stuck in one encounter for too long so I don't really get how the game can be as hard as most people unless they are under leveled?

Edited by SpookyMask on Sep 27th 2018 at 10:21:45 PM

theres an ironic thing about interpreting it as a killer GM in that Pathfinder has a bit of a reputation as "D&D for people who have an unreasonable hatred of anything newer than 3.5"

Pathfinder is deadly only on level 1-3 though because on first three levels unlucky crits will end your character.

Anyway, another reason why I'm confused about difficulty complaints: You can change it from options any time you want, including fiddling with sliders. If you find game hard, you can just tune it until its right for you <_< I've never done that, but you can do it

Apparently it's somewhat all over the place. I haven't played it myself yet, but people do note that even when you put the sliders to the easiest the game continuously obliterates them in a few rounds.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

@Discar: Then again Dark Souls is more on your motor skills rather than trying to build character and hope for RNG to favor you...then again roguelikes are also partly like that. But at least those tend to have better tuned enemy generation, some intentional OOD enemies notwithstanding. This seems to be all over the place.

Edited by onyhow on Sep 27th 2018 at 1:29:35 AM

Give me cute or give me...something?

^^I don't really have that experience though ._.

Like, I have only three theories: a) if sliders isn't set at "100% normal enemies", math is actually wrong and it results in enemies that are too strong.

b) because I play pathfinder P&P I understand mechanics better than somebody who hasn't ever played it so I don't have that many problems as result as I know how to deal with level 1-3

c) bad luck with dice rolling. It can happen in P&P game as well <_< Level 1-3 is nicknamed "Rusty Shank Town" for reason among some folk(not sure where that originates from, but I assume image boards because it sounds like what image board would come up with)

(For record, my party is level 5 by now)

Edited by SpookyMask on Sep 27th 2018 at 1:45:30 PM

According to the Devs, the first Hotfix for the difficulty complaints will be out tomorow. Several more are planned.